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Evidence,why bother

 
By sshevie at July 25, 2006 - 11:06pm | General

Heya all. I've had a thought on my mind for some time.
The problem isn't so much the evidence, but more the way we as investigators look at it.
I have gotten some very good EVP evidence that Chris would like me to publish for public opinion. To be honest, as good as it is, I have hesitated.
After watching all the hubbub go on with the group from New York, I have to say, I no longer see any point in presenting ANYTHING. To be honest, outside of my group, I dont care if I share anything I get anymore.
I absolutely understand that we have to approach our chosen field with a sense of doubt in what we see and hear. It's a must , as we do have so many people looking to either make a quick name for themselves or just wanna screw over investigators.
But when you get to the point that people are either flat out calling you a liar or completly crazy,
I just dont see the point in this. Within the last year Grimstone had a picture taken that showed an arm and a hand that did not belong to any other investigator in the room, and we published it.
It got to the point that the investigator, that this "arm" appeared over, was doubting herself into believing that the hand was hers, even though she knew it wasn't. All because of an endless barage of ametures were telling her they didn't believe her about where she knew her hands were at the time of the pic.
Then the flat out nastiness with the group from newyork and a video of an "apparition" walking in front of an investigator.
Is it jealousy? That they can't get there own evidence so they tear down everyone elses? I have no clue but from my point of view its getting to be a trend in this field. I for one am sick of it.
So I guess your asking yourself, "what the hell is the point of this thread Robb?"
Well the point is, we are going to completely kill the sense of wonder and adventure we get from being able to actually catch the other side from time to time. The absolute thrill we get everytime we go into a haunted location and experience the other side for ourselves.
I know we all go into situations with open minds and sceptical minds as it should be. It's time to get back to enjoying the hunt and the rare sliver of evidence we get on occasion. I hope it never gets to the point that sharing the incredible with fellow hunters gets old. I love to see what others get and deep inside I want to contribute in the area that I happen to be good in.
Anyway folks, I'm sorry this has been so long, I just needed to say what has been bugging me so badly lately. All I hope is that we all just start to relax and get back to the wonder that drew us all in to an amazing field of study.
Good Hunting.

Robb Kaczor
Lead Investigator
Grimstone Inc

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I See Your Point

By OMS Transmitting on May 10, 2007 - 3:42pm

I see your point. Can't blame people for their reactions but can understand your frustration! It wasn't too long ago that I believed there was no such thing as EVP outside of imagination, wishful thinking, radio interference and fraud. Boy did I get proven wrong.

Video evidence is especially hard for people to believe, it seems (right?). So makes sense you'd get disheartened. Too bad there are so many ways to construct false images!

The only way I'm going to be able to keep investigating is if I don't take myself too seriously - which is extremely hard sometimes.

I think you're on to something when you ask if people are jealous. Yes, I think some are. Especially those who, for whatever reason haven't collected much (or any) evidence after many tries. They also have the right (I think) to be skeptical of others.

Hopefully what you do at least gives you the privilege of having a deeper awareness of the "hidden" realities in our universe, as well as some really entertaining, exciting times :)

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no press is bad press

By backharlow on August 15, 2006 - 9:39am

Thank you Robb for voicing your angst for the headbutting personal politics that we all know so well. i feel the same way and have publically presented only a tiny fraction of my own findings for the same reason. when i hear about these kinds of disputes i'm reminded of the old concept of "spontaneous order". this is the notion that when a new field emerges which consists of a bunch of independent people who share and compete but only for their own self-interests, it tends to form a nasty kind of hierarchy of power. i think part of the resentment that we share is from the fact that we come to the paranormal with a serious scientific work ethic, but we aren't recognized by serious science. serious science has a more rigid protocol that cuts through some of those personal agendas in hopes of actually getting something done properly. until a scientist of reputation really digs through the data and convinces the right smokey parlors that the quest for proof of the afterlife is worth investing something more than what a fringe subculture can produce, we will continue to self-sensor and hopefully cooperate. but i think there's a distinction that's easy to loose sight of; regardless of your personal beliefs, the only way to prove if something is true is to try to disprove it in every way possible. the stronger your evidence, the more scrutiny it will have to bare. its very easy to confuse this process of validating your work with the flac that comes in from those who either hate you or are jealous. the ones who hate you can later be befriended but the ones who are jealous will be jealous forever.

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Evidence sharing

By Doug on July 28, 2006 - 12:09am

I've been there too, Robb. If ghost hunting weren't a passion of mine, I'd've been out of it a long time ago.

How many hobbies have I had? A fair amount. This is the only hobby in my life that I've stuck to for any length of time. And it could be exactly because of that wonder and doubt that you speak of above. The wonder and doubt inspires a passion for the field that no other hobby has offered me to date.

Humans are--more often than not--social animals. This ability-to-communicate thing caught on and it appears that we want to talk about many things. I find the vast majority of what humans talk about utterly boring (sports, car engines, anime', etc.), but I do not find it boring to talk about the paranormal. There will be people who don't find the paranormal fascinating, and that's fine, but I find the paranormal so interesting I've been studying it on and off since Elementary School.

Sharing captured evidence always runs the risk of ridicule. So does going on the air once a week for 3 hours. So does attending a party. So does talking about politics with coworkers or strangers at 7-11.

But there is also this thing about being social creatures and some weird notion that each of us can help or make a difference.

For me, as an example, sharing evidence gives folks a chance to THINK. Whether they reject it or not, for a brief moment they can consider it.

To add to your list (New York, Grimstone), the photo we shared on Ghostly Talk of the ghost in the stairwell (from the Missouri folks, I believe) was actively and hotly protested. I still think back to that photo, though, and experience the wonder.

That's why I'm here. That's what keeps me looking and searching.

I've dismissed evidence, too. There's a thread here on the message boards where a lady shared photos of her child playing in a yard. My response was that if it's not lens flare then perhaps some kind spirit was playing in the yard as well. The photo caused me to wonder and think of possibilities. I appreciated that immensely. Though I don't think the photo proves the existence of ghosts, it certainly meant something to me to have the opportunity to look at it, think about it, and revel in the possibilities for a moment.

Also, I dismiss the Barton Mansion video. I enjoyed the DVD and I thoroughly enjoyed the thread here on the message board picking at it. But was it a ghost? Don't know--at least without more information I don't think so. But I did enjoy analyzing and thinking about it.

So what're you going to do? If you keep evidence to yourself you are guaranteed not to have folks dismiss it; but also you don't give folks the opportunity to experience it and think about it and talk about it. If you put evidence up for peer/public scrutiny, you take the chance of ridicule.

My choice is obvious since I take the chance of ridicule every Sunday for 3 hours.

~~==- Doug -==~~
Phone: +1 (586) 222-1397
co-host, Ghostly Talk
panelist, Paranormal Minds
fan of everything Indie

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Another thought

By ayla on August 13, 2006 - 8:40pm

"For me, as an example, sharing evidence gives folks a chance to THINK. Whether they reject it or not, for a brief moment they can consider it."

Well said!

I don't know much about this whole ghost thing (Hi! I'm new by the way!), but it's been an interest that keeps popping up in my life. What I do know is there has never been anything invented or discovered without someone being a critic...either someone who is totally against the idea or someone who is in the same field.

But what happens from there? Years from now people will know more and more about ghosts and we will all look back on your pictures and think "Wow, in 2006 so-and-so took this picture and no one believed them, how ignorant they were!"

Kimberly

"And if we don't hide now, They're going to catch us when we sleep."

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Evidence

By GRANITE STATE P... on July 28, 2006 - 6:56am

You have to be thick skinned to deal with public opinion in any forum.
I too have had felt the skeptical wrath, but my opinion on the matter is that if you have something to show, show it and let the chips fall where they may.
Just like someone might not care for your opinion on the evidence, you don't have to agree with theirs either.
Like the old saying goes it only takes a few A-holes to ruin everything.
Please Don't let them affect you to the point where you don't share your findings, I have found that for every hardcore skeptic, there is about 10 believers out there, and either of them could be right or wrong.
People who refuse to believe anything, are only robbing themselves of real data when it does come around.
You have to just laugh it off, and go on.
At the same time, don't fall into the trap of not listening to feedback, you'll rob yourself of other ideas as well.
I do agree that criticism needs to be dignified, and civil, and not everyone approaches it like that, and there are allot of 'Know it alls' out there, if you look closely, they are usually the most inexperienced too.
Please Don't let these people affect your work, most of us aren't like that in this field, it's just a few, and like I said, they're usually the 'Arm chair' ghost hunters who don't have their own evidence, and I'm sure most of them have never even been to the field.
Sharing information is the #1 most important aspect of this field of study!
It's all part of the job!

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Our team gets alot of photos

By hkolln on August 2, 2006 - 5:47pm

Our team gets alot of photos to analyze in email. Well I get them and forward them to the team to look at. I have to tell you it is hard to analyze a photo and give an honest opinion because you don't know how many times I get dust orbs. I am civil when I tell them but they still get irrate on me and dimiss my analysis. If you don't want my honest opinion then don't send them to me!

I find that sharing our knowledge is the best part of this and when I explain something to someone and educate them I hope they at least retain it. But we all learn as we go and there is no experts in this field. We have to understand in every profession or hobby there is going to be someone who thinks they have it all figured out.

Our team has alot of great debunkers on it. We throw evidence out all the time from investigations because we can find natural reasons for it occuring. Why post evidence that isn't honest? I try and find every possible natural or logical reason for something before I do dismiss it but I have to tell you most of the time we do find reasons for things.

And when I get a website to look at or link to mine or one that wants our award I always go do their evidence site first, especially their photo galleries. You don't know how many times I have debunked photos on other websites. On our site we don't post anything unless we can't prove it to be anything else. Why would you post a dust orb as evidence? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Helen
www.spiritinvestigations.net

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